"Crossover Design for New Project"

[GM]

Without the tweeter it sounds like you know when a drummer hits a cymbal and then will grab it to stop it from vibrating,well that's what it kinda sounds like to me without the tweeters.With the tweets the crash cymbals seem to hang in the air so to speak.

This is where I don't understand.I thought we are going with a cabinet of max height 60".I think I would have a hard time getting this one passed my wife.

As they are volunteers, I hope I can pay them back with building a top-notch speaker that would make them Proud....

Correct, the only musical energy this high up is the upper harmonics of a few instruments that gives the sense of 'air' around them. Note though that if the amp clips, then this BW is lost and at best is replaced with distortion, though this high up, our hearing acuity is so poor that few folks can tell the difference.

Not from me, in #53 you said the ceiling was the limit and in #58 I interpreted the 60-64" as being the limit to keep the horn from being too high up in your over/under layout which is irrelevant to my suggested layout unless you have a very high ceiling, so WRT any SAF issues, I wish you'd either mentioned this from the get-go or said that x" was a max height horn center-line/woofer cab/whatever limit to save time.

Now, we're back to an over/under layout with the lower woofer rolled off per Zilch and using mass quantities of EQ to shelve the horn down enough to mate to a single woofer with max LF gain BW being a function of how much net Vb can be crammed into the allowable H-W-D space. To mimic a MLTL's vent mass loading (damping), it will have to be done the old fashioned way by using the time consuming click (impulse) test if you find the bass too 'boomy'/'loose'.

You're welcome!

GM

[Altec Best]

[quote=GM;1830690]

Not from me, in #53 you said the ceiling was the limit and in #58 I interpreted the 60-64" as being the limit to keep the horn from being too high up in your over/under layout which is irrelevant to my suggested layout unless you have a very high ceiling, so WRT any SAF issues, I wish you'd either mentioned this from the get-go or said that x" was a max height horn center-line/woofer cab/whatever limit to save time.

But then we started talking about the MTM 3 cabinet modular design.So I got a little confused then.I then started to make a couple quick drawings with measurements on them I assumed you saw the 60" max height.Well anyway my Bad sorry for the confusion.As I said I get lost sometimes in the explanations so I apologize for that,I'm not even close to your level of expertise.So please bear with me.I took a couple extra measurements and cabinet can go as high as 65"- 70" with 70" being the absolute MAXIMUM height.I would prefer 65" but you tell me if it is enough volume in the cabinets for the 416.I was thinking we were going to do the 3 cab modular with the horn in the middle and the tweet just above the 511 and right below the top woofer will this design still work at this height ??

Now, we're back to an over/under layout with the lower woofer rolled off per Zilch and using mass quantities of EQ to shelve the horn down enough to mate to a single woofer with max LF gain BW being a function of how much net Vb can be crammed into the allowable H-W-D space. To mimic a MLTL's vent mass loading (damping), it will have to be done the old fashioned way by using the time consuming click (impulse) test if you find the bass too 'boomy'/'loose'.

I would like to do what is best for sound.I'm going to rely on your guys judgment.Thanks Again :2thumbsup:

[Altec Best]

Not quite. Alcohol has about half the BTU content of gasoline...18,400 BTU/lb/9,500 BTU/lb

And many older cars have been successfully run on up to 40% mixes...methanol is corrosive to injector parts. That was a serious issue...


Alcohol is WAY more expensive though...your tax money subsidizes ethanol in order to make it cheap to use...

But in small amounts, alcohol is a good octane improver. "flex fuel" vehicles automatically adjust to the fuel mix...
I support cellulosic alcohol, but most of the subsidies are going to overpriced corn, rather than using biomass.

Fortunately I haven't had emission issues in a long time.When I know I have to go to inspection I run a tank of premium through the engine before going.

BTW How are you OG ? Where you been ? Staying cool I hope damn weather we just had our 6th heatwave. If it wasn't snowing this winter in feet it's been in the mid 90's all summer last week it was 104 degrees couple days in a row.We haven't hit the 100 degree mark here in 9 years.Humidity so thick you can cut with a knife.Dew points in the mid seventies.The kind of weather where you clothes stick to you instantly.

[Old Guy]

Fortunately I haven't had emission issues in a long time.When I know I have to go to inspection I run a tank of premium through the engine before going.

BTW How are you OG ? Where you been ? Staying cool I hope damn weather we just had our 6th heatwave. If it wasn't snowing this winter in feet it's been in the mid 90's all summer last week it was 104 degrees couple days in a row.We haven't hit the 100 degree mark here in 9 years.Humidity so thick you can cut with a knife.Dew points in the mid seventies.The kind of weather where you clothes stick to you instantly.

Got a break in the heat finally...just been hanging around the house...unfortunately in the barns it gets about 105 when it's 95 out..

And the redhead out her foot down about me dragging projects into the house...

Managed to get out fishing this morning...got a couple decent cats for supper.

Hope you are well?

[Altec Best]

Hope you are well?

I'm hanging in there.It's just so darn hot, hard to work in that kind of heat.You have to start early and end early.I'm getting anxious to get this project started.Once I get the dims of the cabs then I can go on to get the measurements done with the drivers then a XO.Stay Well my friend !! :2thumbsup:

[Altec Best]

Let me ask a question.I have a pair of 411-8A's I bought from Robert B. they are brand new reconed at GPA.Now instead of using dual 416's would I be able to use these 411's and a pair of new 416's. Now my reason is it would allow me to shrink the cabinet somewhat.As the cab for the 411 could be 5 cb. ft.sealed and then build just a bass reflex 7-8 cu ft for the 416.Now that would shrink it down considerably.Would this be an option or would I run into more trouble with the different specs on these drivers.Or just keep it the same with the dual 416's I really like the idea of being able to shrink the cabinet but I would prefer to use the dual 416's.Is that a viable option or stick to the 416's Thank You for any thoughts on this.

[Old Guy]

Let me ask a question.I have a pair of 411-8A's

Now instead of using dual 416's would I be able to use these 411's and a pair of new 416's.

my first thought would be run the two 411's in a center location, and play with xover around 80-100 to the 416's...

but we know what opinions are like...

[Altec Best]

my first thought would be run the two 411's in a center location, and play with xover around 80-100 to the 416's...

but we know what opinions are like...

I know,I know everyone has one But I value your guys opinions here.I feel this is where the TOP-NOTCH experts lurk. But if I'm building a MTM with the horn in the middle how would I pull that off. I'm building these as a pair for each corner with me somewhere in the middle. GM also mentioned a MLTL design for the woofs.But we are still working out the details on the height limitations.Thanks OG !

ALTEC LANSING The Best !!! :2thumbsup: Well my favorite anyway they just sound right to my ear's !!

[Old Guy]

The two 411 in the center and 2 416's with the horn in the middle in each corner?
Me, I would go grandiose....a couple 420c in each corner with the 411's in the middle. Now that would be purty!

[Altec Best]

[quote=Old Guy;1830795]

I would go grandiose

Well I'm working on it.I'm not going to put this amount of time and $mullah$ to go off half cocked

a couple 420c in each corner with the 411's in the middle. Now that would be purty!

They are guitar speakers aren't they. I want to keep these strictly Hi-Fi with an option maybe down the road to be able to use as a Home theater.As Voices of the Theater !! and would just have to put together a center/rear channels. But for now 2 channel Hi-Fi is what I'm looking for.